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Model 1808 US Navy Pistol by Simeon North


Hi guys, thanks for tuning in to another
video on ForgottenWeapons.com. I’m Ian McCollum, and I’m here today at the Morphy Auction Company, up in Pennsylvania, taking a look at a US Navy pattern 1808 pistol that is in their upcoming Extraordinary Firearms auction. This was manufactured by a guy named Simeon North who was born in 1765, and would become really the first main pistol smith supplying the United States military.
His first contract for hand guns was written up in 1799, and then … actually there followed a gap before
he got another contract, but it would come in 1808. And then he would provide
pistols for many years after that. So the 1808 contract here is specifically for the US Navy,
and it is the first contracted pistol purchased by the US Navy. There was a Militia Act passed in 1808 to allocate funds to
help arm the military forces of the new American Republic. And that resulted in a bunch of different purchases, among
them this contract, the first contract anyway, for these pistols. The government specified that they wanted
a .64 calibre pistol, they got a 10.5 inch barrel. This here of course a single-shot flintlock,
that was the standard of the day. They wanted belt hooks on them, which
you’ll see in a moment, for better naval use. They paid $11.75 per pair, and they
ordered 1,000 pairs in June of 1808. Now this would be followed by a second contract
in December of 1810 for a further 500 pairs. The price went up on those, probably
because the quantity was a little bit smaller. That second contract they paid $12 per pair,
for a total production of 3,000 of these. So let’s take a closer look at it. Unlike North’s previous gun, this has a full
length wood stock on it, and a wooden ramrod. You have a pretty typical flintlock mechanism here.
So cock hammer, fill your priming pan with powder, and you then close the frizzen. And then when you fire that’s going to create
sparks and throw this open and fire the pistol. This style of grip is colloquially known as a
bag grip. This one has a nice brass cap on it. This is the sort of thing where, especially in naval use, this
becomes an impact weapon after you fire your one shot. So it’s relevant to have some reinforcing on the
end of the butt there for when it turns into a club. On this side we have our belt hook. You might think that some of the modern pistols that are
being sold with these as accessories are a funky new idea, they are not, this has been around for many centuries. And this allows sailors to carry these things in
a belt while they’re doing important sailor things, other than shooting pistols at people.
So this was specified in the contract. The bore … was specified at .64 calibre, the
guns as they exist tend to be a little bit larger. This one by my bore gauge came out at .65 or maybe .66
calibre, and I’ve seen some people reference them as .67. However, these did not have interchangeable parts. So there wasn’t a whole lot of of time spent making
sure that any given part could swap between any other particular pistol. The first … pistol that
North did that would have interchangeable parts specified in its contract was
his 1813 contract for handguns. And it’s important to note that that is not
the first industrially interchangeable pistol. So at that point that meant, you
know, carefully hand fitting each part so that it met the requirements
to be swappable between guns. It did not mean that he was at that point able to have a
production line of all interchangeable parts coming off… Anyway getting away from myself for a little bit here. The markings on this: S.North,
Simeon North, Berlin, Connecticut. And an American eagle over the … words “U.States”.
So not “US”, not “United States”, just “U.States”. There is no serial number visible on
these. There are no other marks on them. There are also no sights on them, this
is strictly a point-and-shoot sort of affair. Finding this gun in its original configuration, all flintlock,
is pretty cool. A lot of these, as with so many other military flintlocks that ultimately were sold as surplus into
the civilian market, a lot of them were at one point or another converted to percussion cap use to be a little more
modern, a little easier and more reliable to use. So, pretty cool to find this one as it was originally made. If you’re interested in the first and previous
pistol that Simeon North made for the government, that’s the 1799 pattern, I have a video on
that which I will link at the end of this video. And if you’re interested in these guns in general,
I will say first off, definitely check Morphy’s catalogue. They have a bunch of other martial
flintlock pistols that you may find interesting. And I will continue to do a periodic
series on American flintlock martial pistols. I think I’m going to do these chronologically
as I find them, so keep an eye out for those. Thanks for watching.

Tony wyaad

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83 COMMENTS

  1. Ogram Brat Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:32 pm

    Very nice pistol

    Reply
  2. Ryan Thorne Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    I was expecting another book review, but this works.

    Reply
  3. Tyler_ Lalonde- Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:37 pm

    What wood was used for it,

    Reply
  4. Darren Chantler Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:38 pm

    Good solid “clunk” on cocking the hammer and the pan!

    Reply
  5. Exploatores Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:38 pm

    I guess their isn´t any point of asking for a mudtest. but Can you test fire it.

    Reply
  6. William fforbes-Rutt Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:38 pm

    🐾👌😎🤪👍🏻

    Reply
  7. Ed G Power Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:41 pm

    When your pistol is a single shot, you carry 8 or 12 on a bandoleer with that huge belt hook! LOL

    Reply
  8. widgren87 Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:44 pm

    I love the look of flintlocks, something to do with how "smooth" they look, for lack of a better term. Many modern pistols, rifles etc. don't have quite the same appeal.

    Reply
  9. Cameron Bowes Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:45 pm

    Wow they nearly paid $230 for each pistol for that first contract

    Reply
  10. ZeroKey Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:45 pm

    11,75$ in 1808 is about 239$ today.
    12$ in 1810 is about 250$ today.

    Reply
  11. Andrew Michie Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    Contact BIG SHOOTERIST

    Reply
  12. aaaargl Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    when the auction house gets their backdrop in the color of gun jesus' shirt.

    Reply
  13. P. T. Mc Cain Posted on September 29, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    Wow, amazing condition. I kind of cringe when he handles it without a white glove on.

    Reply
  14. Kierogonal Posted on September 29, 2019 at 1:13 pm

    In what state would these have been carried around using that belt clip. I know safety wasn't worried about quite so much back then, but i cannot imagine this was loaded until just before combat. I'd imagine that it was unloaded and when a hostile ship was sighted then these would be loaded.

    Reply
  15. Raptor Jesus Posted on September 29, 2019 at 1:19 pm

    Why would someone dislike this it just shows that the libs don't care about history or the second amendment shame on them

    Reply
  16. Tommy Ohlrich Posted on September 29, 2019 at 1:24 pm

    Man you really gotta hand it to Ian. Uploading like every single day with a new cool forgotten weapon.

    Reply
  17. 73honda350 Posted on September 29, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    Observation & suggestion: the video setting of black table cloth, black shirt and black background makes it appear as if your head and arms are just floating in space. And, the gun has very dark stick and almost black iron so only the brass shows much detail. Perhaps another color shirt and table cloth would help your production value quite a bit and make dark guns more visible.

    Reply
  18. Thisold Hatte Posted on September 29, 2019 at 1:35 pm

    its pronounced "Burlin".

    Reply
  19. Blood trail outdoors Survival Posted on September 29, 2019 at 1:37 pm

    That’s my dream gun (besides a mg42)

    Reply
  20. Matt Hayward Posted on September 29, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    Gorgeous condition, especially the wood. Looks as dangerous as a club, as it does as a pistol!

    Reply
  21. Matt Twinkletoes Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:01 pm

    serious question: Why did early and late black powder blasters have such large calibre ammunition? Is there some technical reason why smaller projectiles were not favoured over these cannon balls?

    Reply
  22. Scott C Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    First a rotating tube magazine now a belt clip, man the old saying of “What’s old is new again” applies to everything eventually.

    Reply
  23. charles wipman Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:03 pm

    Don't look bad to me.

    Reply
  24. azkrouz reimertz Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:04 pm

    its smoothbore right?

    Reply
  25. o7rein Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    I saw a '99' on the clip side plate.

    Reply
  26. PsychoDad89 Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:16 pm

    Luckily it wasn't made by Peter North

    Reply
  27. KarlBunker Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    Nice! Heck, I'd gladly pay $13 for a pair of those!

    Reply
  28. MrJmak642 Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:32 pm

    I'd be interested to see more arms from the American Revolution and Napoleonic war period.

    Reply
  29. Kristján Rúnarsson Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    The two oldest pistols in existence, the one in the Royal Armouries and the similar but considerably better made example in the Germanisches Museum in Nürnberg (both c.a, 1515-1525), both have belt hooks, so belt hooks are literally as old as pistols are.

    Reply
  30. Robert Smith Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    Would what looks like the number 99, stamped in the brass sideplate possibly be the serial number ?

    Reply
  31. Steve Posted on September 29, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    I forgot about that weapon.

    Reply
  32. Aj Baalman Posted on September 29, 2019 at 3:24 pm

    11 bucks back then for a pair, wow, wish stuff cost that little now. Question, how much harder would the recoil in the hand be shooting that big of a ball compared to a 50 caliber percussion rifle?

    Reply
  33. Shane K Posted on September 29, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    Did the guys back in the revolutionary war carry a separate and finer grain powder for the priming pan or is that a new thing? I have a flintlock rifle and was a member of a club for a couple years and that’s the way I was taught but I can’t see Simon Kenton or Daniel Boone carrying a separate little flask, but idk.

    Reply
  34. vanhende Posted on September 29, 2019 at 3:44 pm

    i love weapons from and around the golden age of sails. thank you.

    Reply
  35. SmokeJaguar240 Posted on September 29, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    alright now thats a good looking weapno

    Reply
  36. knight Owl Posted on September 29, 2019 at 4:11 pm

    A beautiful piece of history! In two ways, first of all, the pistol and then your presentation of it.

    Reply
  37. Guns N' Games Posted on September 29, 2019 at 4:19 pm

    I got a Barrett sniper rifle ad on this video!

    Reply
  38. Galen W Posted on September 29, 2019 at 4:52 pm

    Honest question from someone who has zero experience with muzzle loaders. If this has a clip then it can be carried muzzle down. Is the tolerance so tight between the projectile and barrel that it wouldn’t just fall out or would these have only been clipped in when unloaded?

    Reply
  39. Bryan Phillips Posted on September 29, 2019 at 5:45 pm

    It'd be great to see a series of videos on US muskets and rifles as well, most people don't know the difference between a Brown Bess and a Charleville musket, much less the history and development of those two families of musket and their use in Colonial and US history.

    Reply
  40. Andrew Scott Posted on September 29, 2019 at 6:02 pm

    $11 in 1808 is about $200 spending power today

    Reply
  41. Kenneth Coney Posted on September 29, 2019 at 6:20 pm

    ",.. chronologically, as I find them." LoL, which translated means, in a virtually random order.

    Reply
  42. The chris Nels Posted on September 29, 2019 at 6:34 pm

    Man I love hate this guys channel 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ I’m binges watching all these videos and it’s controlling my weekend 😂😂

    Reply
  43. afn29129 David Posted on September 29, 2019 at 7:02 pm

    at 1:02 "…. the new American republic." Thank you for correctly identifying the USA as a republic!

    Reply
  44. Little Jenny Posted on September 29, 2019 at 7:21 pm

    Belt clip'? But the trigger isn't covered! Where's the trigger guard? LOL!!!!!

    Reply
  45. Lil_Skorpion64 Posted on September 29, 2019 at 7:28 pm

    Looks like a regular flintlock pistol to me, but other than that, it looks gorgeous.

    Reply
  46. battlefieldelite1 Posted on September 29, 2019 at 7:32 pm

    I love you gun Jesus.

    Reply
  47. therugburnz Posted on September 29, 2019 at 7:46 pm

    The patina is fab. Flint-locks are not my idea of fun but I'd love to touch it just to feel the history.

    Reply
  48. Smitty Smith Posted on September 29, 2019 at 8:29 pm

    Important Sailor things.
    Buggery on the high seas!

    Reply
  49. Randy Watson Posted on September 29, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    Nicccee! Such a beauty in overal design.

    Reply
  50. YoungWill Posted on September 29, 2019 at 10:13 pm

    That’s $261.106 per gun if you bought one in 2019, take my money lol

    Reply
  51. David Ahtes Posted on September 29, 2019 at 10:24 pm

    Was that gun fired excessively to cause all that pitting around the touch hole? (Black powder is quite corrosive…) I have a British flintlock pistol from 1813 with no corrosion.Maybe a better quality metal used…just wondering here.

    Reply
  52. Happy Haunter Posted on September 29, 2019 at 10:29 pm

    I love each and every one of your videos, but I must admit as a retired Sailor, I'm especially thankful for the great work you do on US Navy weapons; from clubs with barrels to Stoner LMG's to M110's. Thanks Ian.

    Reply
  53. Bud Ehrmann Posted on September 29, 2019 at 11:05 pm

    Not to criticize you Ian, but I am from Connecticut and Berlin is pronounced there as Burrlin, with the accent on Burr. But everything in New England is pronounced differently than the same word/place in UK/Europe.

    Reply
  54. joseph langan Posted on September 29, 2019 at 11:23 pm

    Not really into flintlock era guns myself but you went and found an interesting one anyway

    Reply
  55. TheLoneRideR Posted on September 29, 2019 at 11:45 pm

    Been wanting to see more flintlocks, thank you!

    Reply
  56. Wynn Stewart Posted on September 29, 2019 at 11:46 pm

    Any updates on your book?

    Reply
  57. Some Guy Posted on September 30, 2019 at 12:55 am

    Hearing percussion and reliable in the same sentence is a sin.

    Reply
  58. steveH Posted on September 30, 2019 at 1:19 am

    One minor nit: As a flintlock, it has no hammer. The flint in held in the jaws of the cock, which conveys it to the frizzen when fired. Those converted to caplocks replaced the cock with a hammer, and added a cap nipple to the touch hole. (Minor twitch from someone who learned to shoot with muzzleloaders, mostly flintlocks. And no, it was not when they were first invented.)

    Reply
  59. Diabolus_Musica Posted on September 30, 2019 at 1:33 am

    I'm holding out for the 2050 Youtube Forgotten Weapons video on the Glock 19.

    Reply
  60. Ethan Goldsmith Posted on September 30, 2019 at 1:51 am

    Can I boot carry it?

    Reply
  61. Bib Fortuna Posted on September 30, 2019 at 2:21 am

    Why is the belt hook positioned in a way that would mean the barrel would be pointed downward? Wouldn't it be better if the barrels were pointed upward when hooked on a belt to avoid the cartridge from possibly sliding out?

    Reply
  62. Arthur Williams Posted on September 30, 2019 at 2:42 am

    .64 caliber pistols… when you only get one shot, it’s got to count.

    Reply
  63. Loupis Canis Posted on September 30, 2019 at 2:43 am

    Thank you , Ian .

    Reply
  64. Matthew Arenson Posted on September 30, 2019 at 4:13 am

    You should shoot more flintlock

    Reply
  65. A.A.-ron Posted on September 30, 2019 at 4:51 am

    Why do I carry a .64? Cuz they dont make a .65!

    No really though it's just what the navy issued to me.

    Reply
  66. Henry A Posted on September 30, 2019 at 8:06 am

    I see that this particular auction also has examples of flintlock pistols with detachable shoulder stocks. It would be great if you could do a video on one of those 🙂

    Reply
  67. nasreen hajiri Posted on September 30, 2019 at 11:41 am

    hello. there is a modern Swedish submachine gun named MS but it's not popular. cloud you do a video about it

    Reply
  68. JonatasAdoM Posted on September 30, 2019 at 11:42 am

    I think Ian knows more about guns than the manufacrers themselves.

    Reply
  69. JonatasAdoM Posted on September 30, 2019 at 11:43 am

    If you ever run out of surviving guns you can always just talk about them, never stop.

    Reply
  70. JonatasAdoM Posted on September 30, 2019 at 11:45 am

    64 Caliber? Did they use it to pierce wooden hulls?

    Reply
  71. TheLoneRideR Posted on September 30, 2019 at 2:24 pm

    It looks very similar to the British "tower" pistols…

    Reply
  72. Olivier Dubrulle Posted on September 30, 2019 at 5:50 pm

    Hi Ian, big fan, please do a vid of the Harper's Ferry…

    Reply
  73. Mike Blair Posted on October 1, 2019 at 4:41 am

    The second flintlock pistol I made was a copy of the 1808. The belt hook was fun to forge as it is a direct copy of the belt hook for the pattern 1756 English sea service pistol which was the first flintlock pistol I made. Come to think of it, the side plate was also a direct copy from the 1756 sea service pistol. Maybe you might want to do colonial arms too. You already have the Maryland committee of safety pistol. That counts as colonial as the committee's of safety to back at least as far as the interwar period between the seven years war and the Rev. war.

    Reply
  74. Mr. Dmitri Ravenoff Posted on October 1, 2019 at 6:54 pm

    "… as they are doing important sailor things." Nice.

    Reply
  75. Cro Minion Posted on October 4, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    It's interesting to see the breech plug tang that extends clear down to the butt cap and the trigger guard tail or tang that goes nearly all the way down the front of the grip. You could really wail on someone with the butt of that pistol without worrying about breaking it.

    Reply
  76. Noman Tamboli Posted on October 6, 2019 at 6:11 pm

    Please can u name the gun eddie remayne holds in elizabeth 2 movie please help

    Reply
  77. Draugre Posted on October 11, 2019 at 1:31 am

    You should have a playlist for black powder/early firearms, hard for me to navigate youtube trying to find specifically early weapons

    Reply
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